From Mike Vaccaro in todays NY Post"

It's just a smaller difference now. And there are weekends, like the one just past, when you take a stroll through town and it's starting to look and sound and feel an awful lot like the middle '80s again. Not everywhere. Not all the time. Just enough to make you stop, and think, and wonder.


But baseball plays by different rules, even in the 44-plus seasons when it's only been a two-team town. The Mets were born at a time when the city was bored by the Yankees, they filled a crevasse left by two fleeing teams, and for the first dozen or so years of their existence they ruled the town with an iron fist. Then the Yankees were reborn in the mid-'70s, the Mets fell into disrepair and Mets fans became a more endangered species than the spotted owl. It didn't seem possible that things could ever switch back again, but they did, and in a big way, and by the time the Mets had assembled their mid-'80s powerhouse they were drawing almost a million fans more per season than the Yankees were. And then, around 1993 or so, things switched back one more time, stayed that way, seemed like they might stay that way forever.
Only we should know by now that in baseball New York, nothing is truly forever.

Mets are for Ever, SJ you know that brother! I watch them practice in Port Saint Lucie Before the season started and the stands were packed even in Florida.

The Yankees are averaging almost 10,000 more per game. The Mets new stadium has like 43,000 seats. The Yankees new stadium has over 10,000 more than that.

Take this into account...the Yankees have the most expensive tickets in all of baseball. If the tickets were cheaper they would need a football arena on a nightly basis!

NL town...uh, okay.

The Yankees average over 50,000 per game. More than 5,000 over the next team (Dodgers). On the road the Yankees average 6,000 more than the # 2 team.

Yankee baseball!!!

Yeah gimme a friggin break. I heard Rick Reilly make the same retarded argument. New York City is the greatest city in the entire world and should not be represented by a bunch of perrenial losers (except the Jets ;) )

The Yankees average over 50,000 per game. More than 5,000 over the next team (Dodgers). On the road the Yankees average 6,000 more than the # 2 team.

Yankee baseball!!!
if that makes you feel better, OK.
slowly changing back as the sportswriter accurately wrote,,

i know it hurts, but , as the sportswriter accurately wrote, its cyclical,, yanks will be back again,,,

if that makes you feel better, OK.
slowly changing back as the sportswriter accurately wrote,,

i know it hurts, but , as the sportswriter accurately wrote, its cyclical,, yanks will be back again,,,


so when do you agree with sportswriters?

When it fits your agenda??

so when do you agree with sportswriters?

When it fits your agenda??
uh , ok

Mets fans are funny creatures.

Mets fans are funny creatures.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

if that makes you feel better, OK.
slowly changing back as the sportswriter accurately wrote,,

i know it hurts, but , as the sportswriter accurately wrote, its cyclical,, yanks will be back again,,,

I didn't read his article. But he is basing this on what? On the # of Met hats he sees in the street?

I didn't read his article. But he is basing this on what? On the # of Met hats he sees in the street?
street buzz,, more wins,, and the fact Mets/Yanks have swapped being the team several times since Mets came into NL,,cyclical,,,
http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/slowly__willies_crew_is_stealing_the_city_back_met s_mike_vaccaro.htm

The Yankees are averaging almost 10,000 more per game. The Mets new stadium has like 43,000 seats. The Yankees new stadium has over 10,000 more than that.

Take this into account...the Yankees have the most expensive tickets in all of baseball. If the tickets were cheaper they would need a football arena on a nightly basis!

NL town...uh, okay.


The Cubs outdraw the White Sox in Chicago last year by a good margin-Did that make them more relavent in that town?

A lot of people go to see the Yanks to see them lose or to see a historic stadium Yankee Stadium - when you start putting up attendance figures

A lot of people go to see the Yanks to see them lose or to see a historic stadium Yankee Stadium - when you start putting up attendance figures
That's a joke, right? I know you're a Mets fan, but I always thought you were sensible.

New York is still a Yankee town, the reactivity by Yankee fans on this board is amazing.


The article merely stated that the 2006 season is SLOWLY swinging the balance the other way. Who could argue that?

That's a joke, right? I know you're a Mets fan, but I always thought you were sensible.

I must be getting pretty good -people do not know when I am joking Bob.

I think the writer means that mets fans are finally excited about their mets after they have sucked the last 6 years.

The town belongs to whoevers winning at the time. WHich also holds true for the Jets and Giants.

I don't care how many seats you sell,how many regular season games you win, How many HR's Beltran has or how many loser mets fans there are....It will take a lot more than that to change what kind of town NY is.

Only Mets fans would put a claim to fame on NYC after 60 regular season games.

The Cubs outdraw the White Sox in Chicago last year by a good margin-Did that make them more relavent in that town?

Scott...thanks for playing. But you MISSED the boat on this one.

Chicago is a Cubs town. It has nothing to do with the White Sox winning the World Series.

NY is the YANKEES town. Willie's impressive start aside. If George farts on the same day the Mets clinch the AL East, we will be reading about the smell. A few pages of car ads later...you can read about the Mets.

That is the way it works. I will spare you the OWNED commentary. Although if you keep agreeing with SJ I will let Jermaine back. :p

Although if you keep agreeing with SJ I will let Jermaine back. :p


Ill commit Message Board suicide.

Scott...thanks for playing. But you MISSED the boat on this one.

Chicago is a Cubs town. It has nothing to do with the White Sox winning the World Series.

NY is the YANKEES town. Willie's impressive start aside. If George farts on the same day the Mets clinch the AL East, we will be reading about the smell. A few pages of car ads later...you can read about the Mets.

That is the way it works. I will spare you the OWNED commentary. Although if you keep agreeing with SJ I will let Jermaine back. :p

If being "relavent" is winning a popularity show as opposed to winning ball games, I will take teh winning EVERY time.

NOW I understand why Yankee fans seem excited just because of the number of players on teh Yankees that are leading their positions for teh All Star game.

They LIKE us, they really LIKE us!

Good for your fandom

A lot of people go to see the Yanks to see them lose or to see a historic stadium Yankee Stadium - when you start putting up attendance figures
So the same could be said for the Red Sox....


:rolleyes:

Scott...thanks for playing. But you MISSED the boat on this one.

Chicago is a Cubs town. It has nothing to do with the White Sox winning the World Series.

NY is the YANKEES town. Willie's impressive start aside. If George farts on the same day the Mets clinch the AL East, we will be reading about the smell. A few pages of car ads later...you can read about the Mets.

That is the way it works. I will spare you the OWNED commentary. Although if you keep agreeing with SJ I will let Jermaine back. :p
ummmm....

NY will never again be a Mets town unless the Yankees move

the Mets are the fourth most relevant baseball team in NY history.

NY will never again be a Mets town unless the Yankees move

the Mets are the fourth most relevant baseball team in NY history.

It is a shame you were so young during the 80's. You missed a lot.

For a young guy like you to be so young and to use terms like "never", just seems so wasteful.

And, if you think the Mets were second fiddle in '69, and the years that followed immediately after, well, you are not as versed in baseball history as you pretend to be.

If being "relavent" is winning a popularity show as opposed to winning ball games, I will take teh winning EVERY time.

NOW I understand why Yankee fans seem excited just because of the number of players on teh Yankees that are leading their positions for teh All Star game.

They LIKE us, they really LIKE us!

Good for your fandom

Scott...

Yankee fans are focused on one thing. Winning it all. The bar has been set that high.

This thread (started by a Mets fan) was about who was more popular in NY. That's all. Popularity and winning are 2 different things.

I happen to be more interested in watching them win. And they do it so often, that is probably the explanation behind their popularity!

New York is still a Yankee town, the reactivity by Yankee fans on this board is amazing.


The article merely stated that the 2006 season is SLOWLY swinging the balance the other way. Who could argue that?
thats right, exactly what article said,, its starting but Mets have to finish the deal to put them on top again in NY,, again, bottom line, its cyclical,,big deal,,,

The town belongs to whoevers winning at the time. WHich also holds true for the Jets and Giants.
true,,,as opposed to chicago, where even when Sox are winning, its a Cubs town,,
thats what makes NY great,, even with the Yankee tradition, when Mets are winning and Yanks arent the fans realize it,,

I don't care how many seats you sell,how many regular season games you win, How many HR's Beltran has or how many loser mets fans there are....It will take a lot more than that to change what kind of town NY is.

Only Mets fans would put a claim to fame on NYC after 60 regular season games.
reread article,,,
it said yanks still have town, but he can see its starting to shift, IF the mets continue what they have started,,a BIG IF,, i admit

Scott...thanks for playing. But you MISSED the boat on this one.

Chicago is a Cubs town. It has nothing to do with the White Sox winning the World Series.

NY is the YANKEES town. Willie's impressive start aside. If George farts on the same day the Mets clinch the AL East, we will be reading about the smell. A few pages of car ads later...you can read about the Mets.

That is the way it works. I will spare you the OWNED commentary. Although if you keep agreeing with SJ I will let Jermaine back. :p
u just cant let go,,
NYC has shifted over years between Mets and Yanks dominating fans and back pages,, look up attendance on down Yank yeras vs up Mets years and vice versa,,whats the big deal,,
are u that much still the 8 year old walkin thru yankee stadium tunnel seeing the field for the 1st time to not realize that?

NY will never again be a Mets town unless the Yankees move

the Mets are the fourth most relevant baseball team in NY history.
uh ok skippy

Scott...

Yankee fans are focused on one thing. Winning it all. The bar has been set that high.

This thread (started by a Mets fan) was about who was more popular in NY. That's all. Popularity and winning are 2 different things.

I happen to be more interested in watching them win. And they do it so often, that is probably the explanation behind their popularity!

NOW,, but that changes,, and when it has over years, the allegiance of city has swayed back and forth,,
now , i agree if yanks continue to be at top of standing EVERY year forever, then the best the two teams can do is draw,,,but crap happens and if mets play 1st place ball and yanks slip to being 8 to 10 games oyut in July then its a different story

u just cant let go,,
NYC has shifted over years between Mets and Yanks dominating fans and back pages,, look up attendance on down Yank yeras vs up Mets years and vice versa,,whats the big deal,,
are u that much still the 8 year old walkin thru yankee stadium tunnel seeing the field for the 1st time to not realize that?

I told you I didn't read that article. I have never disagreed that the town has shifted. They go with the winner. My point is that the shift has not begun and is not close.

The Yankees dominate in attendance. The Mets are a win it now team. Look at the age in the rotation. They have this season and next to get it done. Then they will be bringing in new guys to get it done. That doesn't always work out.

tick, tick, tick

I told you I didn't read that article. I have never disagreed that the town has shifted. They go with the winner. My point is that the shift has not begun and is not close.

The Yankees dominate in attendance. The Mets are a win it now team. Look at the age in the rotation. They have this season and next to get it done. Then they will be bringing in new guys to get it done. That doesn't always work out.

tick, tick, tick
and again, the artice says that,,i have said that,,,no one is disputing that,,,yikes,,,
quit worryin,
paranoia will destroy ya

and again, the artice says that,,i have said that,,,no one is disputing that,,,yikes,,,
quit worryin,
paranoia will destroy ya

So the article says it is a Yankee town. And there are no changes planned. Yes, then I agree with the article.

So the article says it is a Yankee town. And there are no changes planned. Yes, then I agree with the article.
yes it says its a yankee town since last time mets owned town,,
it just said if mets carry out what they have started and yanks dont do better than another shift could take place,,,
thats all..it wont bite ya,,
man, what did u do when u found out there was no santa claus?

what did u do when u found out there was no santa claus?

I pulled the car over and said Dad get out. I will hear no more of this nonsense.

It is a shame you were so young during the 80's. You missed a lot.

For a young guy like you to be so young and to use terms like "never", just seems so wasteful.

And, if you think the Mets were second fiddle in '69, and the years that followed immediately after, well, you are not as versed in baseball history as you pretend to be.

The Mets had their moments

but they're nowhere near as relevant as the Yankees, Giants and Dodgers are/were.

Funny how the Mets have one good not-even half of a season and yet you guys feel you can speak down on the Yankees.

The Mets had their moments

but they're nowhere near as relevant as the Yankees, Giants and Dodgers are/were.

Funny how the Mets have one good not-even half of a season and yet you guys feel you can speak down on the Yankees.



Where, exactly, were the Yankees "spoken down to" in this thread? Blackout, paranoia is correlated pretty strongly with cardiovascular disease. Be careful.

I pulled the car over and said Dad get out. I will hear no more of this nonsense.
haha, i know u hate this but its like Doug Heffernan finding out his beloved Dog (38 years old) was really Rusty the 4th,, his parents never had the heart to tell him the dog died and replaced him without Doug knowing,, and there have been 3 others since 1st one died and he still doesnt know,, he just belives his dog is 38..

its the same episode where he also found out that he had to repeat kindergarten and his parents had told him that it was SUPER Kindgergarten!

Where, exactly, were the Yankees "spoken down to" in this thread? Blackout, paranoia is correlated pretty strongly with cardiovascular disease. Be careful.
\he is obvioulsy too young to remember the yankee 'dominance' of the mid 60s thru mid 70s and the early 90s,,'
its cyclical,, it happens to everyone,,,

george fixed it (except for ealy 90s), but you never know,,,

The Yankees had okay teams in the 80's. But it was a Mets town then. The Mets screwed up big time by only winning once with that bunch of guys.

The Yankees had okay teams in the 80's. But it was a Mets town then. The Mets screwed up big time by only winning once with that bunch of guys.

Very true and not unlike the 2001-2006 Yankee teams.

Very true and not unlike the 2001-2006 Yankee teams.

Not a very fair comparison, as the Yankees were in teh WS twice in that timeframe, and 2006 will be the 3rd time. Also, the Yankees did draw League-leading attendance totals, while the Mets of the 1980s did not always do so.

The Yankees had okay teams in the 80's. But it was a Mets town then. The Mets screwed up big time by only winning once with that bunch of guys.
agree 100%,,, drugs will do that to you,,
and Davey Johnson 'wait for the 3 run HR baseball' :D

Not a very fair comparison, as the Yankees were in teh WS twice in that timeframe, and 2006 will be the 3rd time. Also, the Yankees did draw League-leading attendance totals, while the Mets of the 1980s did not always do so.
mets in 85 thru 90 were ranked 2,2,2,1,3,2 in NL attendance,,,
the Yanks in 2000 thru 2005 were 2,2,1,1,1

actually pretty good for mets as they were 2nd place WC team in 4 of 6 years

Not a very fair comparison, as the Yankees were in teh WS twice in that timeframe, and 2006 will be the 3rd time. Also, the Yankees did draw League-leading attendance totals, while the Mets of the 1980s did not always do so.


If you are implying that these 2001 through 20006 Yank teams who have had multiple former MVP's , All-Stars and CY Young winners added to "the Captains team" have not under achieved you are crazy.

Very true and not unlike the 2001-2006 Yankee teams.

True. Good thing for the Yankees that they had 96, 98, 99 and 2000 to fall back on!

There is always 2007!

i love the yanks, and ny ill always be a yanks town. what i hate it that the yanks have become teh financial superpower in mlb. its so convient to say you are a yanks fanjust because of the names. not sayin i am turning coats, but i really respect the mets org. if the mets wom the ws as often as the yanks did, you'd find many more mets bandwagoneers!

i love the yanks, and ny ill always be a yanks town. what i hate it that the yanks have become teh financial superpower in mlb. its so convient to say you are a yanks fanjust because of the names. not sayin i am turning coats, but i really respect the mets org. if the mets wom the ws as often as the yanks did, you'd find many more mets bandwagoneers!
some reason that post made me feel like i just gulped down a Black Beauty,,

New York has not been a National League town since Babe Ruth. The Dodgers and Giants had to leave town with their tails between their legs because they were completely overshadowed by the Bronx Bombers.

The Mets have always been a little brother - almost an afterthought.

Thus has it ever been. Thus shall it ever be.

New York has not been a National League town since Babe Ruth. The Dodgers and Giants had to leave town with their tails between their legs because they were completely overshadowed by the Bronx Bombers.

The Mets have always been a little brother - almost an afterthought.

Thus has it ever been. Thus shall it ever be.

Ah, yes. Revisionist Yankee history at it's best.

From the mid 60's to the mid 70's you could shoot a cannon down Broadway at noon and not hit anyone who claimed to be a Yankee fan. One of those years, they drew an announced crowd of around 500 to a game against the White Sox. And I think they were counting arms of people, not bodies.

During the mid 80's, it was a Mets town with Dwight, Darryl, Keith and the rest. Yankee stories were on page 20 of the sports section.

It's been a Yankee town since about 95, but they're on the way down now, and it is changing again. Both teams have die-hard fans, and both teams have bandwagoners.

BTW, the Dodgers left NY because O'Malley was able to extort the Mayor of Loas Angeles easier than he could the mayor of New York. He convinced the idiot Stoneham to go with him. It was all about real estate, not fan interest.

I think the writer means that mets fans are finally excited about their mets after they have sucked the last 6 years.
LOL!! :lol:

By every objective measure the Yankees dominate the NY baseball scene

MUCH HIGHER TV RATINGS

MUCH HIGHER RADIO RATINGS

MUCH HIGHER HOME ATTENDANCE

AND EVEN MUCH HIGHER ROAD ATTENDANCE

But hey, some clown from the NY Post is counting Met hats he sees on the street ... real scientific study ... so all of these objective measures can be dismissed :rolleyes:

From 1969 to 1986 the NY mets won 90+ games twice ( 84,85) How did you own Ny in that time span?

But hey, some clown from the NY Post is counting Met hats he sees on the street ... real scientific study ... so all of these objective measures can be dismissed :rolleyes:


Remember when the Mets fans would Say the Yankees gained about 5M new fans after 1996? Those same bandwagon fans are now buying Mets hats & Jerseys....Watch how they embrace them now that they root for the Mess.

Tsk Tsk Tsk.

The point is not which has more fans or higher numbers in attendance, the juicy part of this story is what team is more RELAVENT, which team is more INTRIGUING.

That is what the purpose of the article (whether you want to believe it or not).

The greatest thing is to watch Yankee fans contort their little kingdom and actually change history to have to try and defend a point that has very little meat to it.

Talk about being spooked by ghosts, Yankee fans now seem to be afraid of shadows.

Remember when the Mets fans would Say the Yankees gained about 5M new fans after 1996? Those same bandwagon fans are now buying Mets hats & Jerseys....Watch how they embrace them now that they root for the Mess.


Smizzy, I don't know what your official stance on this issuse is (YES I DO), but you proved the original point of writer exactly!!!!!!!

Here it is:

There will always be a set of fans who are Met fans regardless.

There will always be a set of fans who are Yank fans regardless.

There is a set of fans that follow the wind, and root for the most relavent team at the time, the team that has the most intrigue.

Call them bandwagon, or whatever, but there are those fans that do that. That is where the tide changes. It is not going to change among the loyal hardcores. That would be ridiculous to expect.

It was enlightening to hear from a Yankee fan on this point, that agrees what the Mets fans have laid out.

THANKS SMIZZ. You get it.

New York has not been a National League town since Babe Ruth. The Dodgers and Giants had to leave town with their tails between their legs because they were completely overshadowed by the Bronx Bombers.

The Mets have always been a little brother - almost an afterthought.

Thus has it ever been. Thus shall it ever be.
hey skipper, look at Mets vs Yankee attendance stats since Mets came to NY,, its cyclical,,

By every objective measure the Yankees dominate the NY baseball scene

MUCH HIGHER TV RATINGS

MUCH HIGHER RADIO RATINGS

MUCH HIGHER HOME ATTENDANCE

AND EVEN MUCH HIGHER ROAD ATTENDANCE

But hey, some clown from the NY Post is counting Met hats he sees on the street ... real scientific study ... so all of these objective measures can be dismissed :rolleyes:
what a tool,,
he is sayin that the yanks are still on top for this cycle,,
but it MAY be shifting,,MAY be,,

if u look at the historical cycles , all the stats u put in your thread were owned by team in front for that particular cycle,,
man, yank fans are paranoid,,,

From 1969 to 1986 the NY mets won 90+ games twice ( 84,85) How did you own Ny in that time span?
bottom line its cyclical,,
From 1964 thru 1975 Mets outdrew yanks,,,11 years
From 1976 thru 1983 the Yanks outdrew the Mets.. 7 years
From 1984 thru 1992 the Mets outdrew the Yanks,,,8 years
From 1993 thru 2005 the Yanks outdrew the Mets,,12 years...

So Yanks have current cycle, and Mets MAY be starting to shift back to NYs historical cycle,,

for last 38 years Mets and Yanks are even 19 -19 years,,,

Its not a big deal guys,,,just facts,,,
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/attend.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml

Tsk Tsk Tsk.

Talk about being spooked by ghosts, Yankee fans now seem to be afraid of shadows.
POTW nominee....

Wow SJ

You're really fighting the good fight


But we all know the truth, don't we

Wow SJ

You're really fighting the good fight


But we all know the truth, don't we
u r right, numbers dont lie,,
its cyclical,,silly to say otherwise,,
but congrats to yanks on a good cycle this time around,,i expect they will outdraw this year, and maybe even next,,
but hey yanks will be back,,the new boss of yanks is a Tarheel,, UNC alumni son-in-law has been given reins by George,, so all is good,,,

u r right, numbers dont lie,,
its cyclical,,silly to say otherwise,,
but congrats to yanks on a good cycle this time around,,i expect they will outdraw this year, and maybe even next,,
but hey yanks will be back,,the new boss of yanks is a Tarheel,, UNC alumni son-in-law has been given reins by George,, so all is good,,,

Don't kid yourself....the Mess are having a once in a generation type season, and they STILL won't outdraw the Yanks

Question.....are you one of the many no-shows at Shea


Hope you are staying dry....I have a close friend that had to go to Raleigh because of the floods....he works for a disaster relief company

Don't kid yourself....the Mess are having a once in a generation type season, and they STILL won't outdraw the Yanks

Question.....are you one of the many no-shows at Shea


Hope you are staying dry....I have a close friend that had to go to Raleigh because of the floods....he works for a disaster relief company


What are the stats on no-show-I would be interested to see this, since you have them

What are the stats on no-show-I would be interested to see this, since you have them

He is one of the many Mess fans that talks alot, but doesn't show up too often.......even when the Mess are winning:rolleyes:

Don't kid yourself....the Mess are having a once in a generation type season, and they STILL won't outdraw the Yanks

Question.....are you one of the many no-shows at Shea


Hope you are staying dry....I have a close friend that had to go to Raleigh because of the floods....he works for a disaster relief company
the mall paking lot flooded and a few streets, but its all subsided now,,i am surprised he had to come,,
thanks for askin,,
my creek is major league altered, but that happens every once in awhile,,, i have a few new huge sandbars and at one entry point the creek is a few feet from some stairs i built,, the newest bridge i have is at least not effected (i have had to rebuild twice) ...
but it will change again,,,always does,,nature

Question.....are you one of the many no-shows at Shea
pany
havent been to shea since 70s...
once u move south there isnt a lot of motivation to re-cross the mason-dixon line :cool: