How come nobody is blasting Cashman for letting Andy walk this year? Oh that's right his mid 5 ERA is the reason.

Mods, you can delete this thread. I figured out the answer.

he let him walk in 2003-2004, now this year

he let him walk in 2003-2004, now this year

LOL. I know this. I meant how come THIS YEAR nobody is blasting Cashman? The year he let him walk Petite was hurt all year, nobody blasted Cashman either.

Last year we heard lots of rumblings about how the Yankees screwed up. 1 out of 3 years? PASS especially for that much money.

He's been a bust.

Year 1 - Injured, down the toilet
Year 2 - pitched very well
Year 3 - dooshey!

When I first heard he was close to signing with the Astros, I called the NYPOST and told them to put Andy on the back cover and have it say "WE WANT ANDY BACK" and the ahole was like "sure ok" I say "really?" he says "no we cant do that" .....Kevin Brown was a stud for us no loss.

Wait a minute...how is it Cashman's fault? Wasn't the bottom line that Andy wanted to be with his family and Clemens?

Wait a minute...how is it Cashman's fault? Wasn't the bottom line that Andy wanted to be with his family and Clemens?


Cashman was cheating with Andys wife so Andy moved as far away as he could from the cash man.
Well played, Brian.

Wait a minute...how is it Cashman's fault? Wasn't the bottom line that Andy wanted to be with his family and Clemens?

Clemens decided to go to Houston after Andy signed.

Andy left New York because of Steinbrenner not willing to dish out a few more bucks.

Wait a minute...how is it Cashman's fault? Wasn't the bottom line that Andy wanted to be with his family and Clemens?

If the Yankees (George) wanted him back, he would have been back. Cash took heat for this last year. My point in this thread is the Yankees were right.

If the Yankees (George) wanted him back, he would have been back. Cash took heat for this last year. My point in this thread is the Yankees were right.


The Yankees assumed Andy would be back and did not treat him as priority one until the last minute when they upped their offer above everyone else. The damage was already done and Andy walked.

17-9 last year and a trip to the WS. This year has been bad but his last 3 starts indicate he will likely finish up with 14-15 wins.

Letting him walk was a mistake. Not Kazmir like, but a mistake.

The Yankees assumed Andy would be back and did not treat him as priority one until the last minute when they upped their offer above everyone else. The damage was already done and Andy walked.

17-9 last year and a trip to the WS. This year has been bad but his last 3 starts indicate he will likely finish up with 14-15 wins.

Letting him walk was a mistake. Not Kazmir like, but a mistake.

I disagree on two things.

1. The Yankees only upped their offer (in public) to save face. They did not want him back. If they did, they would have gotten him. George has a thing for bad guys gone good. Petite spending the road trips in the hotel reading the bible apparently has no value to George.

2. How can you say letting him go was a mistake? Seriously. In 3 years he has had 1 good season. He didn't win 20 on a playoff caliber team but it was a really good season. He missed almost a whole year 3/4 or so due to injuries. And this year has been nothing short of terrible for him. He is going to come close to giving up 300 hits this season. Impressive.

And it would all be worse in the AL.

I disagree on two things.

1. The Yankees only upped their offer (in public) to save face. They did not want him back. If they did, they would have gotten him. George has a thing for bad guys gone good. Petite spending the road trips in the hotel reading the bible apparently has no value to George.

2. How can you say letting him go was a mistake? Seriously. In 3 years he has had 1 good season. He didn't win 20 on a playoff caliber team but it was a really good season. He missed almost a whole year 3/4 or so due to injuries. And this year has been nothing short of terrible for him. He is going to come close to giving up 300 hits this season. Impressive.

And it would all be worse in the AL.

Max he was 17-9 last year with a 2.39 ERA pitching more innings than any year since 97 and led his team with Clemens to the WS.

His injury the first year occured swinging a bat so if you our trying to make the assuption that the Yanks didn't sign him due to a underlying physical problem that holds no water.

This season is not over. If he wins 14-16 games this year added to last seasons 17, saying he was not a mistake is rubbish especially when you know he can be counted on to be unaffected by the NY post season stage.

his ERA is higher than Snoop Dogg this year, I don't blame the Yankees for not resigning him

is he better than Chacon or Small? Sure, but he's twice as expensive.

his ERA is higher than Snoop Dogg this year, I don't blame the Yankees for not resigning him

is he better than Chacon or Small? Sure, but he's twice as expensive.

ERA is lower than Randy's as well but you are right, the cash strapped Yankees made a sound business decision.

Pettite's career record after the All-Star break is 91-37. He is 89-63 in the first half.

ERA is lower than Randy's as well but you are right, the cash strapped Yankees made a sound business decision.

Pettite's career record after the All-Star break is 91-37. He is 89-63 in the first half.

Randy's is 5.06

Beckett's is 5.12

granted .06 points is no biggie, but Unit's is officially lower at this point in time :D

Randy's is 5.06

Beckett's is 5.12

granted .06 points is no biggie, but Unit's is officially lower at this point in time :D

Which is nice except for the fact the thread and post was about Pettitte not Beckett.;)

I think nobody is blasting Ca$hman is because it was fat george's decison to let Pettite go.

Remember, he wouldnt negotiate with Pettite's agents (Hendricks bros.) because he was too busy courting Doc Gooden and Sheffield with garbage bags full of steroids and 8-balls!?!?!?

Then Pettite left and took his 4 rings (oh, and he also won more playoff games than any other Yankee pitcher in history) with him and you havent had an effective lefty since.

In fact, you havent had an effective big game pitcher since, and thats the real reason why Andy was valuable to you guys.


UNTIL NOW....lets welcome Sidney Ponson to Yankeeland. Yes, the same criminal who assaulted a judge in his native Aruba. The same big game pitcher who couldnt close out the Florida Marlins in 2002 as a Giant and was chased from the game, and the same Sidney Ponson who fits in perfectly as a Yankee.

Got any more questions about Andy Pettite, Max?

UNTIL NOW....lets welcome Sidney Ponson to Yankeeland. Yes, the same criminal who assaulted a judge in his native Aruba. The same big game pitcher who couldnt close out the Florida Marlins in 2002 as a Giant and was chased from the game, and the same Sidney Ponson who fits in perfectly as a Yankee.
Thats all true. But i'd rather have him as my 5th starter then Kyle Snyder or Jason Johnson.

Thats all true. But i'd rather have him as my 5th starter then Kyle Snyder or Jason Johnson.


You wont see me b*tch and moan about my 5th starter too much. Youre 5th starter is supposed to suck, nor will he be seeing a playoff roster spot.

Except that Ponson will be expected to make the playoff roster (IF the Yanks do actually make it that far) so he is more than a 5th starter I would presume. Chacon will likely be left off I'd wager at this point.

Yes, Johnson = garbage and a terrible idea from the get-go...but I really am not minding Kyle Snyder. I know he sucked as a Royal, but so far I havent minded him in a BoSox uniform.

I am very concerned though, about all this talk of not only Clement coming back but ALSO David Wells!?!?!?!?

Its been nice NOT having those 2 around all season. I need them to incur more injuries on the comeback trail tho. I really will take my chances with Snyder.

You wont see me b*tch and moan about my 5th starter too much. Youre 5th starter is supposed to suck, nor will he be seeing a playoff roster spot.

Except that Ponson will be expected to make the playoff roster (IF the Yanks do actually make it that far) so he is more than a 5th starter I would presume. Chacon will likely be left off I'd wager at this point.

Yes, Johnson = garbage and a terrible idea from the get-go...but I really am not minding Kyle Snyder. I know he sucked as a Royal, but so far I havent minded him in a BoSox uniform.

I am very concerned though, about all this talk of not only Clement coming back but ALSO David Wells!?!?!?!?

Its been nice NOT having those 2 around all season. I need them to incur more injuries on the comeback trail tho. I really will take my chances with Snyder.As a yankee fan i'm THRILLED whenever i see Clement or Wells take the mound for boston.

And if randy johnson is a terrible idea and garbage what does that say about Beckett who has worse numbers then randy does?




Johnson: 42 years old, $15.6 million salary

Beckett: 26 years old, $4.3 million salary



Looks like you edited your post just after I quoted you. Nice try.

Johnson: 42 years old, $15.6 million salary

Beckett: 26 years old, $4.3 million salary



Looks like you edited your post just after I quoted you. Nice try.The yankees gave up CRAP for johnson boston gave up 2 good prospects for Beckett.

The yankees gave up CRAP for johnson boston gave up 2 good prospects for Beckett.


and Mike Lowell. I'd rather be in Boston's situation. At least they get Beckett for the longterm. Regardless of what the Yanks gave up to acquire Johnson, he's DONE after this year and cost the Yankees a boatload.

and Mike Lowell. I'd rather be in Boston's situation. At least they get Beckett for the longterm. Regardless of what the Yanks gave up to acquire Johnson, he's DONE after this year and cost the Yankees a boatload.
Johnson pitches the yankees into the playoffs last year. Has been MUCH better of late this year and i'd much rather have Johnson's contract coming off the books after next year so the yankees can go out and sign any number of FA pitchers who are better then Beckett.

Johnson pitches the yankees into the playoffs last year. Has been MUCH better of late this year and i'd much rather have Johnson's contract coming off the books after next year so the yankees can go out and sign any number of FA pitchers who are better then Beckett.


As if the $4 million Boston is paying Beckett is holding them back from signing a free agent pitcher next offseason.

As if the $4 million Boston is paying Beckett is holding them back from signing a free agent pitcher next offseason.
The yankees will win any bidding war on any FA's no matter what. Johnson pitched the yankees into the playoffs last yearand he's been good of late this year. I'd much rather have that then to have traded a player like hanley ramriez who would've been boston's SS for 10 years for beckett pitching like garbage

The yankees will win any bidding war on any FA's no matter what.


Did you win the bidding war on Vladimir Guerrero?

Did you win the bidding war on Vladimir Guerrero?
The yankees never made a bid for vlad. They had already decided to sign sheff.

The yankees never made a bid for vlad. They had already decided to sign sheff.


Nice decision there. An aging, punk, steroid user who happens to be injury prone over a young class act and run producer who happens to be the best "bad ball" hitter in the game who could have been slotted in as your # 3 hitter for the next decade.

Nice decision there. An aging, punk, steroid user who happens to be injury prone over a young class act and run producer who happens to be the best "bad ball" hitter in the game who could have been slotted in as your # 3 hitter for the next decade.
I showed that you have no idea what you're talking about and you come back bashing the yankees with somthing that had NOTHING to do with the original point.

I showed that you have no idea what you're talking about and you come back bashing the yankees with somthing that had NOTHING to do with the original point.


My point is that, not only have the Yankees lost some of their ability to "sign anyone they want", it is also ill-advised, and sometimes, the Yankees sign the wrong man. How many championships have the Yankees won under the new philosophy?

My point is that, not only have the Yankees lost some of their ability to "sign anyone they want", it is also ill-advised, and sometimes, the Yankees sign the wrong man. How many championships have the Yankees won under the new philosophy?What does that have to do with Beckett?

What does that have to do with Beckett?


Absolutely nothing. Is it a crime to change the subject in a thread? This thread was originally about Brian Cashman and Andy Pettite, yet turned into a thread about the Red Sox.

You mentioned that the Yankees will have Randy off the books and thus will have money freed up to sign anyone they want. I am arguing that this will not be the case.

Absolutely nothing. Is it a crime to change the subject in a thread? This thread was originally about Brian Cashman and Andy Pettite, yet turned into a thread about the Red Sox.

You mentioned that the Yankees will have Randy off the books and thus will have money freed up to sign anyone they want. I am arguing that this will not be the case.
the fact that they have money to spend is a fact not an opinion. you changed the subject cause i proved you wrong and you're just looking to find somthing to bash the yankees about.

the fact that they have money to spend is a fact not an opinion. you changed the subject cause i proved you wrong and you're just looking to find somthing to bash the yankees about.


Exactly what did you prove me wrong about? Is it common knowledge that having a 26-year old SP making $4 million is a worse situation than having a declining 42-year old SP making $16 million? What am I missing here?

Exactly what did you prove me wrong about? Is it common knowledge that having a 26-year old SP making $4 million is a worse situation than having a declining 42-year old SP making $16 million? What am I missing here?
You said the yankees wanted vlad and didn't get him, got proven wrong and just started the bash the yankees about somthing else. Typical moronic yankee hater.

You said the yankees wanted vlad and didn't get him, got proven wrong and just started the bash the yankees about somthing else. Typical moronic yankee hater.


What evidence do you have that the Yankees did not want Vlad Guerrero?

What evidence do you have that the Yankees did not want Vlad Guerrero?
LOL The fact that they never made him an offer and signed Sheffield. Go away and stop looking to bash the yankees with faulty into.

LOL The fact that they never made him an offer and signed Sheffield. Go away and stop looking to bash the yankees with faulty into.


All that proves is that the Angels were willing to give up the most to get him, NOT that the Yanks had zero interest in him. If they didn't, then Cashman/Steinbrenner are easily the stupidest front office team alive for choosing Gary Sheffield over Vlad Guerrero.

didn't the mets refuse to offer Vlad a multiyear deal because of his back?

didn't the mets refuse to offer Vlad a multiyear deal because of his back?
yes they did

Can somebody please change it to Pettitte?:character42:

Probably the only thing JBF and myself will ever agree on.

Biggest mistake Cashman and George ever made was not resigning Pettite.

You DO NOT let Lefty's in their prime leave. Especially when he has been your money pitcher in post season.

For whatever reason George always had it in for Pettite. Don't know why but Torre basically saved Pettite from being traded to the Phillies in 97 and then coming off his best year ever in 2003 is basically ignored while George is chasing the Sheffields and Kenny Lofton's of the world.

They then compound the mistake by signing d!ckwad Kevin Brown.

Yeah Max I'm over it though. :)

Probably the only thing JBF and myself will ever agree on.

Biggest mistake Cashman and George ever made was not resigning Pettite.

You DO NOT let Lefty's in their prime leave. Especially when he has been your money pitcher in post season.

For whatever reason George always had it in for Pettite. Don't know why but Torre basically saved Pettite from being traded to the Phillies in 97 and then coming off his best year ever in 2003 is basically ignored while George is chasing the Sheffields and Kenny Lofton's of the world.

They then compound the mistake by signing d!ckwad Kevin Brown.

Yeah Max I'm over it though. :)How do you know they even had a chance of resigning Pettitte? He wanted to go to his home in houston.

I don't believe that for one minute.

The Yanks didn't even make a phone call to Pettite until he had gotten an offer from Houston and by that time it was too late.

Pettitte should have been taken care before he even got to free agency the same way Jeter was and Rivera was. That is how important I think Pettitte was to the Yankees.

I don't believe that for one minute.

The Yanks didn't even make a phone call to Pettite until he had gotten an offer from Houston and by that time it was too late.

Pettitte should have been taken care before he even got to free agency the same way Jeter was and Rivera was. That is how important I think Pettitte was to the Yankees.
i don't think we'll ever know the whole story. The big mistake was not trading for a better starter in the offseason that year. They really went into that year with an horrible rotation.

i don't think we'll ever know the whole story. The big mistake was not trading for a better starter in the offseason that year. They really went into that year with an horrible rotation.

They did.

Their names were Kevin Brown, Javy Vazquez and Esteban Loaiza :)

They did.

Their names were Kevin Brown, Javy Vazquez and Esteban Loaiza :)They traded for the wrong pitchers. The Brown and Vazquez deals were both HORRIBLE. The loaiza thing was midseason.

The loaiza thing was midseason.

Yeah and that worked out just grand didn't it?

Yeah and that worked out just grand didn't it?
Did i say that? It worked out horrible too but not as bad as the vazquez trade. I doubt Contreras would've ever become this good in new york. Even with all that though the yankees should've won the world series that year...

They traded for the wrong pitchers. The Brown and Vazquez deals were both HORRIBLE. The loaiza thing was midseason.

And why were they horrible ?

Because they could not handle the pressure of pitching under the spotlight which Pettitte was able to do many times.

Both Brown and Vazquez looked scared to death when they took the mound in game 7 against the Sox. It something we have seen not only with them but Jeff Weaver, Contreras, Kenny Rogers and I'm sure their are others you can thrown in there. (Steve Trout anyone ?)

Guys like Pettitte Jimmy Key, Cone are guys who won't make the HOF but they also won't wilt when the pressure is greatest. It is something this team has reallly lacked since 2001.

And why were they horrible ?

Because they could not handle the pressure of pitching under the spotlight which Pettitte was able to do many times.

Both Brown and Vazquez looked scared to death when they took the mound in game 7 against the Sox. It something we have seen not only with them but Jeff Weaver, Contreras, Kenny Rogers and I'm sure their are others you can thrown in there. (Steve Trout anyone ?)

Guys like Pettitte Jimmy Key, Cone are guys who won't make the HOF but they also won't wilt when the pressure is greatest. It is something this team has reallly lacked since 2001.
It had nothing to do with New York the pitchers the yankees got that year just wern't that good.

Max he was 17-9 last year with a 2.39 ERA pitching more innings than any year since 97 and led his team with Clemens to the WS.

His injury the first year occured swinging a bat so if you our trying to make the assuption that the Yanks didn't sign him due to a underlying physical problem that holds no water.

This season is not over. If he wins 14-16 games this year added to last seasons 17, saying he was not a mistake is rubbish especially when you know he can be counted on to be unaffected by the NY post season stage.

I am talking RIGHT now. Not what he may do. Not what he can do. What he did do.

He was hurt. He pitched lights out. He pitched like crap. That is his body of work so far in 3 seasons they got one GREAT year and nothing else. It is a lot of money for 1 out of 3.

The Yankees did not make a mistake letting him go.

I think nobody is blasting Ca$hman is because it was fat george's decison to let Pettite go.

Remember, he wouldnt negotiate with Pettite's agents (Hendricks bros.) because he was too busy courting Doc Gooden and Sheffield with garbage bags full of steroids and 8-balls!?!?!?

Then Pettite left and took his 4 rings (oh, and he also won more playoff games than any other Yankee pitcher in history) with him and you havent had an effective lefty since.

In fact, you havent had an effective big game pitcher since, and thats the real reason why Andy was valuable to you guys.


UNTIL NOW....lets welcome Sidney Ponson to Yankeeland. Yes, the same criminal who assaulted a judge in his native Aruba. The same big game pitcher who couldnt close out the Florida Marlins in 2002 as a Giant and was chased from the game, and the same Sidney Ponson who fits in perfectly as a Yankee.

Got any more questions about Andy Pettite, Max?

Yeah I do. Because you ignored the whole point of the thread. From a business standpoint, the Yankees made the right call.

That being said I would take Andy back here in a second. And I love blasting Cashman and Company. But I can't do it on this one. They were right.

Probably the only thing JBF and myself will ever agree on.

Biggest mistake Cashman and George ever made was not resigning Pettite.

You DO NOT let Lefty's in their prime leave. Especially when he has been your money pitcher in post season.

For whatever reason George always had it in for Pettite. Don't know why but Torre basically saved Pettite from being traded to the Phillies in 97 and then coming off his best year ever in 2003 is basically ignored while George is chasing the Sheffields and Kenny Lofton's of the world.

They then compound the mistake by signing d!ckwad Kevin Brown.

Yeah Max I'm over it though. :)

Shawn,
I think he should have been brought back. I agree.

But he has had 2 terrible seasons (performance and injury) out of 3. Can't blame the Yankees for that. Looks like they were right.

Shawn,
I think he should have been brought back. I agree.

But he has had 2 terrible seasons (performance and injury) out of 3. Can't blame the Yankees for that. Looks like they were right.
There is NO REASON to bring pettitte back here. He's probably the 5th or 6th best FA pitcher thats going to be on the market this offseason who the yankees should go after.

Except that Ponson will be expected to make the playoff roster (IF the Yanks do actually make it that far) so he is more than a 5th starter I would presume. Chacon will likely be left off I'd wager at this point.
.


Ponson has no shot at making the post-season roster as a Yankee. Never say never, but he will not beat out Randy, Wang, Moose or Wright. And if Pavano ever gets healthy, Ponson is even further away from a playoff roster spot.

Snyder has a better shot making the Bosox post-season roster then Ponson has of joining the Yankees in the post-season.

If the Bosox even get there.:rolleyes: