congrats to Trevor Coughman for passing Lee Smith for the all-time saves record


granted Hoffman is nowhere near being the best closer in baseball because he only allows himself to pitch in save situations (unlike Mo/Wagner/Ryan/K-rod/Nathan/Papelbon/Street/Jenks/Cordero/Gordon etc.)

its still an accomplishment I suppose.

According to the local media, he was being crowned the " best reliever in MLB history". Maybe they need to watch some 98 WS replays. He may have the saves record, but that doesn't make him the best reliever ever.

According to the local media, he was being crowned the " best reliever in MLB history". Maybe they need to watch some 98 WS replays. He may have the saves record, but that doesn't make him the best reliever ever.
Sort of like I remember reading that Smith was the best relief pitcher around since he had the save record.

Yeah, right.

Congrats to Trevor Hoffman indeed.

But I agree, Save Totals are one thing, Best Reliever is another.

Guess what? in 2-3 weeks if the Tigers are in the ALCS (Oh please Christ Please) do you think I want Rivera within a Zip Code of the mound late in the game? Not a freaking chance. The guy is freaking sick and almost automatic money. If he doesn't get a little S (37) next to the stats it doesn't matter, because I bet it WILL say this : IP 1, H 0, R 0, ER 0, BB 0, K 2

Congrats to Trevor Hoffman indeed.

But I agree, Save Totals are one thing, Best Reliever is another.

Guess what? in 2-3 weeks if the Tigers are in the ALCS (Oh please Christ Please) do you think I want Rivera within a Zip Code of the mound late in the game? Not a freaking chance. The guy is freaking sick and almost automatic money. If he doesn't get a little S (37) next to the stats it doesn't matter, because I bet it WILL say this : IP 1, H 0, R 0, ER 0, BB 0, K 2


Wow. now my own brother is kissing the yankees asses. lol.



I'm only kidding. Rivera is a great reliever. Probably one of the best ever. But kudos to Hoffman.

According to the local media, he was being crowned the " best reliever in MLB history". Maybe they need to watch some 98 WS replays. He may have the saves record, but that doesn't make him the best reliever ever.

coughman is the king of the 1/3 inning save


look at his Games per IP, he's the John Abraham of relievers

look at his Games per IP, he's the John Abraham of relievers


My hamstring started hurting just reading that. :p

Congrats to Hoffman as yes, records achieved by non pinstripers do actually count.

nmn

Congrats to Hoffman as yes, records achieved by non pinstripers do actually count.

but i view this record in the same way i view ichiro's hit title or nolan ryans strike out title


yes, they're very impressive records, but are they really that significant statistics to keep track of when measuring greatness?

Hoffman was able to do this by only pitching in save situations or win situations, and almost never goes more than an inning per appearance.

ichiro got the hit record, but it took him over 700 at-bats to get it. over 200 hits were singles. that doesn't make him more valuable than someone who has a lower BA but walks alot and has a higher OBP percentage. even when you factor Ichiro's stolen bases into extending a base, that still doesn't add up.

nolan ryan struck alot of batters out, and not even Clemens and Randy have been able to get close to 5000 strikeo outs. basaically that means nobody will ever break his career TO record. Yep, impressive. But still, no manager is going to allow his pitcher to throw 300 innings in a season ever again.


i dont think records are always the best way to evaluate talent

but i view this record in the same way i view ichiro's hit title or nolan ryans strike out title


yes, they're very impressive records, but are they really that significant statistics to keep track of when measuring greatness?

Hoffman was able to do this by only pitching in save situations or win situations, and almost never goes more than an inning per appearance.

ichiro got the hit record, but it took him over 700 at-bats to get it. over 200 hits were singles. that doesn't make him more valuable than someone who has a lower BA but walks alot and has a higher OBP percentage. even when you factor Ichiro's stolen bases into extending a base, that still doesn't add up.

nolan ryan struck alot of batters out, and not even Clemens and Randy have been able to get close to 5000 strikeo outs. basaically that means nobody will ever break his career TO record. Yep, impressive. But still, no manager is going to allow his pitcher to throw 300 innings in a season ever again.


i dont think records are always the best way to evaluate talent

You mouth this, yet you say Batting average is an important statistic?

Tell me how that computes.

batting average has value in key situations

bottom of the 9th, 2 outs and runners on, do you want Ichiro and his .372 BA on to go after the game winning hit, or do you want Adam Dunn type hitter with much higher OPS numbers, and has the potential to hit a home run but is 3 times more likely to strike out?

batting average has value in key situations

bottom of the 9th, 2 outs and runners on, do you want Ichiro and his .372 BA on to go after the game winning hit, or do you want Adam Dunn type hitter with much higher OPS numbers, and has the potential to hit a home run but is 3 times more likely to strike out?

You are not talking about BA there. You are talking about late inning pressure situations, which was exactly my point to start.

Who cares what players may get hits in blow outs (eiather way) or in non pressure situations. Show me clutch hits, which BA does not represent.

Again, I will state that BA average is highly overrated. You are now tending to agree by some of your points

either way, billy wagner, not trevor hoffman, is the best closer in the NL

You are not talking about BA there. You are talking about late inning pressure situations, which was exactly my point to start.


That still has everything to do with BA.

You'd take the .350 close and late hitter over the .270 close and late hitter in that situation would you not?

Do you think Cal Ripken was better than Tony Gwyn? I cannot believe the hype that Ripkens BS at bat got in his final AS game a few yrs ago, and Gwyn got no pub at all about it, not even an at bat in the frickin game.
That was complete BS.


edit: nevermind, I get your point scott. Diff subject, gywn was hosed.