The Yankees will NOT win the World Series.

This is a Doug Flutie Rob Johnson fiasco waiting to happen. Sheff looks like an absolute idiot playing first. Matsui is a liability in left when compared to Melky.

LITTLE DEFENSE IN JOE'S LINEUP




http://www.nypost.com/seven/09282006/photos/yanks114.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:SLIDES.hotlink())
LOOKING UP: Playing Jason Giambi at first base could hurt the Yankees in the playoffs, but if the offense performs as it did last night in a 16-5 win over the Orioles at the Stadium, it likely won't matter.http://www.nypost.com/img/newsart/article_storybottom.gif



September 28, 2006 -- JOE Torre managed his seventh All-Star team last night, writing out a lineup card that would hold its own, or even outstrip, anything the fans would vote in for mid-July.
You could see just how seductive it all must be to Torre, assembling an order in which the ninth-place hitter, Robinson Cano, might win the AL batting title. For the first time this season, Torre had all of his weapons, forming what Orioles pitching coach Leo Mazzone called "by far the best lineup in Major League Baseball."
This updated Murderers' Row performed with devastating might. Before an out was recorded in the fourth inning, every member of the lineup had either scored a run or knocked one in. By the time the eighth inning began, every starter except DH Jason Giambi was out of the game, the crushing work done in what would be an 18-hit, five-homer, 16-5 rout of Baltimore.
This is essentially what had been anticipated in the days since Bobby Abreu was obtained, and Cano, Hideki Matsui, Gary Sheffield and now Giambi returned from injury to join Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and Jorge Posada. What Torre can construct is a 1-through-9 wrecking machine full of lefty-righty balance, power, patience and even speed. It is something out of a Fantasy League and almost certainly comprises the nine men Torre will use when the AL Division Series arrives next week.
Again, you can see the seduction in it all. Yet even after witnessing the bashing possibilities, I think Torre is making a mistake. Where he can, Torre should emphasize defense. That would be at first base and left field by going with Andy Phillips and Melky Cabrera. Here are three reasons why: 1. The Yanks should be able to score plenty with a lineup that is seven deep in stars, and Cabrera is, at the least, a tough at-bat.

2. Torre announced Chien-Ming Wang will start Game 1 and, if necessary, Game 5. Of the 82 pitchers who currently qualify for the ERA title, none strikes out fewer per nine innings than Wang. In other words, the ball is in play against him and defense is vital. Wang induces the most grounders in the AL, and putting a novice such as Sheffield at first or clumsy Giambi is a detriment.

The other two main starters, Mike Mussina and Randy Johnson, are finicky veterans who tend to let errors impact their concentration and effectiveness.
3. In this scenario, if the Yanks lead from the beginning of a postseason game, they always have their best defense on the field. But, if they trail, Torre could be extremely aggressive from the fifth inning on pinch-hitting for either Phillips or Cabrera. If, for example, Giambi was the DH, Torre would have available a lefty (Matsui), a righty (Sheffield) and a switch-hitter (Bernie Williams), and the manager could cherry-pick matchups. These hitters may only get one at-bat, but it would almost guarantee it in a huge spot.
Will Torre go this way? Probably not. He said, "It is going to be a busy week trying to figure it out." But he mostly sounds as if he already has. He said Sheffield looks comfortable at first base, though last night he still appeared to be what he is, a veteran learning a new spot. Torre also said Matsui, though inferior to Cabrera, is still a capable left fielder.
On the surface, the decision seems to come down to starting the best offense possible to try to overwhelm opponents vs. emphasizing defense throughout the game. But the key might be subtler. Torre's instincts lean toward favoring veterans and averting the disharmony that could emerge should he sit Sheffield or the potential international incident should he not start Matsui.
Anyway, Torre always can react by editing as he goes along, like he did last year when he recognized the need for better defense in center field and started Bubba Crosby over Williams.
But mainly Torre will hope the postseason goes like last night, with his offense bludgeoning a foe so much that defense hardly matters. He will hope that fielding realities do not deter his Fantasy lineup. joel.sherman@nypost.com

Flutie and Johnson both suck so this is a bad example. Anyway the yankee pitching is going to be suspect after Wang so they should try and get the best lineup out there then made defensive changes late in games.

Andy Phillips and Miguel Cairo will be on the post-season roster, so we have a "hands team," as well. I'm not worried about defense. Pitching, on the other hand...

giambi* can play 1st for 6-7 innings and then bring in Wilson or Phillips

Yanks will be fine,, just hope Mets get to play them in finals..

in reality, iffy Randy is only one that worries me as far as imploding for Yanks,,,

We do realize we're only allowed 25 players on the roster, right?

Phillips and Wilson both wont be on the team. And we will probably have to decide between Melky and Bernie.

Cairo can play first if we need him to.

I agree with the original poster. Lets not forget that Power bats tend to be the most-easily neutralized in the post-season.

The Yankees need a BALANCED line-up to score runs. You need Melky, Jeter, Damon and Cano because they are CONSISTENT hitters. Giambi and Abreu are your "patience" guys. ARod (at least so it seems), Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, etc. are all just guys who get up there and try to crush the ball.

Putting Melky in the lineup gives you a consistent player who can get on base, and help you MANUFACTURE runs, when the opposing pitching is shutting down your power game.

Last night's lineup was cute, but look who they were facing? Kris Benson and the no-bullpen O's. Lets be real, if that were the Angels, that lineup would have been useless.

My Plan: Let Giambi play 1B during at least some of the games -- but no matter what, he's got to come out for Phillips. Then, use Matsui and Sheffield as a Righty/Lefty platoon at DH. Its not perfect, but it gets everyone a chance at postseason play without seriously hurting the defense or balance in the lineup.

I PREDICT, however, that Torre is not going to do this, or anything resembling it. Why? Because the pressure is on to play the high-paid mercenaries.

The Yankees have used that lineup for about 5 years already in the post season and haven't won jack **** -- it's OBVIOUSLY not a well-constructed post-season lineup. WHY DO YOU WANT TO KEEP BANGING YOUR HEADS AGAINST THE WALL?

Yankee fans want to win, they expect to win, but most of you have no idea how to win.

We do realize we're only allowed 25 players on the roster, right?

Phillips and Wilson both wont be on the team. And we will probably have to decide between Melky and Bernie.

Cairo can play first if we need him to.

Phillips is the best defensive 1B, so he makes the roster. Guile and Wilson don't make it -- unless Wilson makes it as a 3rd catcher (at the expense of the bullpen, I assume.

I expect Cairo to make the roster as the all-around utility guy.

There is no way that Melky doesn't even make the playoff roster. With that information, are you prepared to tell me that Joe Torre (a man who is loyal to no end to "his guys," is going to leave Bernie off the roster? Bernie is going to be a pinch hitter off the bench, and a backup outfielder, but ultimately, they will both be on the list.

I am going to have a big problem if Melky is not the starting left fielder and Sheffield is at 1st base come game 1.

Melky is your best defensive OF with the best arm. He has been there basically since May and the Yankees with Damon ,Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Abreu, Giambi, Sheff and Matsui at DH have more than enough big bats in the lineup.

If I was doing this very simply

Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Giambi 1B
A-Rod 3B
Sheff/Matsui DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Cabrera LF

Let Bernie and whoever doesn't play between Matsui and Sheff be the big bats off the bench along with Cairo and Phillips.

Maybe you don't lose your job because of injury but you sure do lose your job "for that year" when the guy who replaces you does as good if not a better job than you. That is why Abreu is starting in RF and not Sheff.

I think in Game One you will see Sheff on the bench or at DH. Torre ain't no dummy. Besides Sheff bat is all or nothing and that doesn't fit in with the high OBP % approach they have been taking.

I think Wilson's out. Cairo is the emergency third catcher.

I think in Game One you will see Sheff on the bench or at DH. Torre ain't no dummy. Besides Sheff bat is all or nothing and that doesn't fit in with the high OBP % approach they have been taking.
who would u rather face in round 1?

who would u rather face in round 1?

As long as the Angels are not in the tournament, I'm not worried about anybody.

I DO realize, however, that anything can happen in a short series.

:) As long as the Angels are not in the tournament, I'm not worried about anybody.

OOOH THIS ONE IS GONNA STING IN A FEW WEEKS. I'have to hang onto a copy of this, could be fun to have in my arsenal.

:)

OOOH THIS ONE IS GONNA STING IN A FEW WEEKS. I'have to hang onto a copy of this, could be fun to have in my arsenal.

You gonna bust it out when we're playing the A's in the ALCS, or when we play whomever survives the NLCS in the series?

You gonna bust it out when we're playing the A's in the ALCS, or when we play whomever survives the NLCS in the series?

Yanks lose in ALDS

I would be shocked if Torre has the balls to have Sheff or Matsui sit for Melky Cabrera.

Agree with Bob that the Angels with their bullpen were the one team capable of giving the Yanks a quick exit.

I don't think Melky's defense in left field is so much better than Matsui's, that it warrants Torre sitting his bat over Melkys. You have to remember that Melky has no post season experience. For all we know he will shine, but you never really know how young players will react. I still think that Matsui needs to start in left and I would put Giambi at 1st. Sheff can DH. If you look at that lineup from top to bottom there is not one weak spot. Defensively it may not be ideal, but look at the abortions Arod has given us at 3rd base. Yet we still have him there. I am more worried about middle relief and the inability of guys like Farnsworth and Ron "the Launching pad" Villone, to get us to Mo. For those Muts/Sux fans saying this lineup hasn't gotten us anywhere, we didn't have Bobby Abreu. This guy has come in and made a huge difference on this team. Robby Cano is also playing at higher level now. There are no guarantees, but I like the way the team looks going in to the alds.

but I like the way the team looks going in to the alds.
hard to tell since they have played minor league teams lately in that tough AL-East

I don't think Melky's defense in left field is so much better than Matsui's, that it warrants Torre sitting his bat over Melkys.

We don't need an extra power bat as much as we need an arm that will hold runners at 3rd -- saving more runs than you realize (especially with a sketchy pitching situation).

You have to remember that Melky has no post season experience. For all we know he will shine, but you never really know how young players will react.
Neither did Jeter the first time he made a post-season roster, or Cano, or anyone. We won the WS with a lot of young guys in 1996. The postseason is about BALANCE. You need the crusty old vets AND the youth to get through it. If not having experience is a good reason to bench someone (who has played in a TON of big/pressure games this season), then we might as well cancel the postseason, because eventually all the experienced players will retire.

Matsui has never won the World Series. Maybe we should bench him because of that?

I still think that Matsui needs to start in left and I would put Giambi at 1st. Sheff can DH.
How has that exact lineup worked for us in the past? Bang your head against the wall some more please.

If you look at that lineup from top to bottom there is not one weak spot. Defensively it may not be ideal, but look at the abortions Arod has given us at 3rd base.
I don't consider Melky a weak spot. He's batting .280 with a .361 OBP -- in a FULL SEASON. Matsui's stats aren't a whole lot better -- except in Home Runs -- and he's only played 47 games (which means that Matsui's numbers aren't even all that reliable (they're even closer statistically if you look at Matsui's career numbers).

Ultimately in the postseason, you don't play that many games, and HRs isn't a good stat to base a judgement like this on -- ANYONE could hit a HR in the postseason (Aaron Boone?) and power hitters can be completely neutralized. In 47 games, Matsui hit 8 HRs, the entire playoffs is only 19 games long (MAX), how many HRs do you expect him to hit? How many makes it worth it to start him in LF over Melky's strong arm and consistent bat?

I am more worried about middle relief and the inability of guys like Farnsworth and Ron "the Launching pad" Villone, to get us to Mo.
Middle relief is going to be an issue if we can't get them some rest this week, i agree. Villone hasn't been awful, all things considered, and frankly, I'm more worried about Farnsworth than I am about Proctor. We'll have to wait and see which relievers make the roster to really know what our situation is though. We should be no worse than anyone else though.

For those Muts/Sux fans saying this lineup hasn't gotten us anywhere, we didn't have Bobby Abreu. This guy has come in and made a huge difference on this team. Robby Cano is also playing at higher level now.

Abreu helped because he took a lot of pitches, which helps hitters like Melky and Cano -- guys who look to put the ball in play, rather than to hit it out. In Philly, he was in a lineup where just about everyone was looking to launch the ball into the stands (and, It wasn't TOO hard to do it in Citizen's Bank), but Abreu was mostly ineffective in that lineup -- a lineup similar to the über-power lineup you are supporting.

Matsui postseason

6 Postseason Series> 33 Games 6 HR's 25 RBI's .319 avg. .377 OBP

Excellent numbers.

I would be shocked if Torre has the balls to have Sheff or Matsui sit for Melky Cabrera.

Agree with Bob that the Angels with their bullpen were the one team capable of giving the Yanks a quick exit.


I think Matsui plays left. Otherwise why was he out there last night. I think Giambi\Wilson play 1b. And Sheff will DH. Don't forget that Joe loves Bernie and might sneak him in there as well at DH.

I think Matsui plays left. Otherwise why was he out there last night. I think Giambi\Wilson play 1b. And Sheff will DH. Don't forget that Joe loves Bernie and might sneak him in there as well at DH.


Sayonora melky then.

This will be the lineup.

Melky will take over for Matsui in late innings for defensive purposes.

This lineup is nothing compared to the 05, 04, 03, 02 lineups. All those lineups had at least 2 or 3 automatic outs from scrubs who didnt deserve to be on the team.

Johnny Damon is the key to this lineup this season. Bumping Jeter down to #2 makes the rest of the lineup stronger and Damon is a peskier leadoff hitter than Jeter was.

Johan Santana would be lucky to throw 7 ip and 3 ER vs this lineup.

Matsui postseason

6 Postseason Series> 33 Games 6 HR's 25 RBI's .319 avg. .377 OBP

Excellent numbers.

How many World Series rings does he have? How many of those series did we win?

In '03 we went to the WS and lost 2-1
In '04 we went to the ALCS and lost 3-2
In '05 we lost in the ALDS 3-3

.500 is not an impressive win pct. -- it's average...

Lets look at Matsui's numbers in last year's ALDS:

5 Games .200 average .273 OBP 1HR 1RBI

Matsui can be good in the postseason, but you can't promise me that he will be great.

I think Matsui plays left. Otherwise why was he out there last night. I think Giambi\Wilson play 1b. And Sheff will DH. Don't forget that Joe loves Bernie and might sneak him in there as well at DH.

To give Melky a night off? I don't know if Melky has even had a night off since June. It's been a while.

Honestly, I think Melky will be sent to the bench, and probably stay there. I'd rather they traded him than do that to him. I don't see why the Yankees can't go with young talent when they have it though.

If Melky plays LF, i'll put my reputation on the line... I'll guarantee a ring for Jeter's thumb. If Matsui plays, I think we should be worried. Our pitching isn't that good, and a team with a good pitching staff will wreck our lineup if we crowd it with "power" bats.

You win and lose with your best guys in the lineup. Pretty simple. There is no logical reason to bench Matsui . If I were Torre, I will get beat with my best guys out there. I have no hate towards Melky. He has done great for us this year. I just feel he needs to step aside and make way for the veteran. He will be useful to us at some point. I just don't see him starting every game. Just my opinion.

How many World Series rings does he have? How many of those series did we win?

In '03 we went to the WS and lost 2-1
In '04 we went to the ALCS and lost 3-2
In '05 we lost in the ALDS 3-3

.500 is not an impressive win pct. -- it's average...

Lets look at Matsui's numbers in last year's ALDS:

5 Games .200 average .273 OBP 1HR 1RBI

Matsui can be good in the postseason, but you can't promise me that he will be great.

Oh I agree with you. We have seen this plan of attack from the Yankess for 6 seasons in a row now and it has not worked.

Having ALL-STARS at every position is going to eventually win though unless you hit a hot pitching staff (Angels 2005) or the Yanks bats collectively slump(Boston 2004).

I fully understand your point as well as Matt39's. That said, you don't sit Matsui or Sheff for Melky.

As to Matsui, you can't just look at one post season when judging Matsui because it suits your opinion.

Why don't you roll out his numbers against Boston in 04 when the rest of your line-up went MIA???.

I have no hate towards Melky. He has done great for us this year. I just feel he needs to step aside and make way for the veteran. He will be useful to us at some point. I just don't see him starting every game. Just my opinion.

Funny, when Herm Edwards made decisions like that, you guys called him an idiot. When Torre does it, he's a genius?

Why don't you roll out his numbers against Boston in 04 when the rest of your line-up went MIA???.

My point was that a hitter like Matsui isn't going to promise you a great performance, no matter how well he's performed in the past. This year, going into the post season, he's the biggest question mark on the team (maybe second-biggest), because, he's only played 47 games (most of them in April).

I don't want to say that we're going to lose any given series if Matsui plays LF, but I think that Melky is a better asset to the team in LF, both in his style of offense and his defense.

Ultimately the "you need to play the veteran" people are making a bad argument. Sure, we don't know how Melky will play in October, but similarly, we don't know which Matsui we're getting either -- Last year's .200avg Matsui, or a .400/10HR behemoth.

We do know what their defense is like, and Melky has been amazing all year in the field, and his arm has saved us more than a few runs -- and no, there isn't a stat for that, but try remember how many runners would round third on a ball hit to LF when Matsui plays, compared to how many are going to run on the same ball if hit to Melky. If Melky saves you one run per game that way, don't you think it's worth it?

Let Matsui be the DH... I've said that my preference is for Matsui and Sheff to share DH duties for the playoffs -- whoever is the best match-up with the pitcher, gets to hit.

To give Melky a night off? I don't know if Melky has even had a night off since June. It's been a while.

Honestly, I think Melky will be sent to the bench, and probably stay there. I'd rather they traded him than do that to him. I don't see why the Yankees can't go with young talent when they have it though.

If Melky plays LF, i'll put my reputation on the line... I'll guarantee a ring for Jeter's thumb. If Matsui plays, I think we should be worried. Our pitching isn't that good, and a team with a good pitching staff will wreck our lineup if we crowd it with "power" bats.


The best post of the baseball season.

I am extremely worried Melky will not make the playoff roster. If he doesn't, I'll have a hard time ciomsidering myself a Yankee fan.

Funny, when Herm Edwards made decisions like that, you guys called him an idiot. When Torre does it, he's a genius?

You know, the fact you just mentioned Herm and Joe in the same sentence leads me to believe you're an asshat.

The best post of the baseball season.

I am extremely worried Melky will not make the playoff roster. If he doesn't, I'll have a hard time ciomsidering myself a Yankee fan.

Melky is on the playoff roster. Question is whether he's in the batting order and in LF druing the playoffs. Think they will not pay Sheff a dime next year when they can have Melky take over LF and Matsui be the DH. Thye should probably make the move now and tell Sheff to have a seat. But you know that isn't happening. Melky's the 1st guy off the bench, but O don't see anyone in that lienup getting pinch hit for.

You know, the fact you just mentioned Herm and Joe in the same sentence leads me to believe you're an asshat.

The fact that you want to play an unbalanced line-up devoid of defense, combined with your "shocker" avatar and the fact that you posted a completely off-topic rant about the Red Sox in a thread about the Cubs, leads me to KNOW that you're an asshat.